Good Leaders, Where Art Thou??!!
Help!! There is a serious shortage of decent leaders in our city!!!
As a follow up to Eva's last post - we thought we were having a temporary dry moment in our usual tango exhilaration, but I am beginning to get really discouraged! Just came back from the only afternoon milonga in the city, which I went to with the thought that it might be good idea to try a new milonga. I had heard it's informal and laid-back, so I figured maybe this is where the good dancers (who are unpretentious and dance for the sake of dancing) could be found. My hopes were shattered as soon as I got off the elevator and headed to the studio. I overheard a woman telling her friend to just turn around and not waste her time. What a disaster indeed! There were few men to begin with, and all the wrong ones at that. I must have danced with two of the worst dancers there, before a somewhat decent but still beginner-intermediate leader asked me to dance. Well, he was as good as it got there. I left after less than an hour. I simply refuse to be jerked around like a rag doll and to be led by men who are musically deaf anymore. I guess the days when we would be happy to dance with almost anyone are far gone. Is this what they call the curse of the good dancer? There are just very few people whom we enjoy dancing with nowadays. Don't get me wrong, I don't consider myself a tango goddess by any means! There is so much to learn. But we enjoy the hard work we put into learning this dance, and at this point, we just refuse to put up with leaders who are on the dance floor for the wrong reasons.
To all the tangueros out there, please keep studying! Why do most men assume that once they get the basics, and can move around the floor without bumping into every couple, they can just stop improving?? No, no, no! You need to keep at it... dear leaders! And as an added benefit to becoming a good dancer, you will have all the power of being "highly sought after". Do you know to what lengths followers will go to dance with a good leader?? On that note, if I can give one word of advice to any guy who is pondering over what hobby to take up, it would be: Learn to tango! Put all your effort into becoming a good dancer and this may change your life around. I am not joking.
Since it takes much longer for men to improve then for women, what do we do in the meantime? Who do we dance with??? I don't know if you tangueras out there have noticed, but I keep seeing a lot of female leaders at milongas lately. I actually danced with a tanguera last week, who was a better leader than a lot of the men present at the milonga. It was refreshing... she was such a joy! Coincidental or have we decided to take matters into our own hands?? I am far from promoting the idea and I happen to prefer being in the embrace of a man because I do feel tango is essentially about the connection between a man and a woman. After all this is how it's meant to be. But why do these women show such initiative and dedication in learning the art of leading, while some men don't seem to care at all? How could they love tango and be satisfied with being lousy dancers?
Still hopeful,
Malena
22 comments:
Hi Malena,
I think that the answer to your question of Why do most men ... stop improving? is that there is really no incentive to improve beyond a certain point. Because there are generally more men than women, the men are in demand and they can get all of the dances they want without having to spend lots of time at classes and practicas.
The only way to improve things from the female point of view is to create an incentive. Amazing dances for the men who do try to improve. More competition from female leaders for the best followers.
As for me, I guess that I've stopped improving as a leader partly due to the "power of being sought after" that you mention. I got to the point where I could finish an evening milonga not having danced with a single follower that I really wanted to dance with because I was always being asked by other followers and found it difficult to say no. Since stopping going to classes, most of the new followers don't know me and don't ask for dances. At last I can get to dance with all the followers I learnt with who are now pretty amazing to dance with. Not attanding classes has meant that my technical ability has declined, but in some ways I think that has improved my dance as now I concentrate more on the music and my partner rather than on what was taught at the last class.
I probably will take up classes again sometime, but away from where I dance regularly.
David
Malena,
Tango is the few hobbies that I picked up and have stayed with. It is like practicing martial arts and yoga, a life long learning experience for me. I go to milonga and practica three to five times a week; take private three to four times a month. Plus watch a lot of youtube clips: load them in the software so that I can watch them frame by frame and break down the movement. If I ever feel knowing enough and stop learning, that is probably the moment I stop dancing.
I do see a lot of people whom dance tango stay at certain level and are happy just to go to a group class every now and then. And they danced the same level as I saw them a year ago when I first started going to milongas. That's the bunch that you and a lot other followers complained about.
I think that it goes with the culture here. First, not that many men consider dancing a masculine hobby. Second, a lot of men go into tango simply because the disproportional gender ratio (me included in the beginning). Third, steep learning curve is sometimes discouraging and there aren't enough good teachers. last, the milongas are not organized properly to cultivate the traditional tango culture.
Also the frustrations are reciprocal. A lot of followers are just happy to be in the milongas and not seeking ways to improve their skills. Part of the reasons I stopped taking group class is that I couldn't bear any more being pulled off balance and dragged by the followers whom should stay in intermediate level, instead of the advanced classes.
And how many women in the milonga know how to embrace and walk before they learn gaunchos, leg wraps and other fancy moves?
It takes me some observation to ask or cabeceo a follower whom I've never dance before. Sometimes I, as a very good leader myself, just sit, listen to the music and watch. Not because I am arrogant or a hotshot wanna be. Simply because I want to enjoy a well connected dance. We all know what it feels like. And we all know how disappointed it is when it doesn't.
Besos,
TJ
PS. The afternoon milonga was good the time I went two weeks ago. Maybe it was because the festival weekend. Give it another try some time, we might bump into each other and have a good tanda or two. :-)
Malena, I think the gents bring up several excellent points. Not nearly enough women say no to mediocre or poor dancers, so the lead-ers* have no incentive to improve. They get plenty of dances with a minimal amount of brain damage.
And I think that those that do continue to improve experience the same thing as followers who continue to improve - less and less partners with whom to experience that "connection" that keeps us addicted.
In other words: quality vs. quantity my friend!
I know a lot of folks are sick to death about comparisons with BA, but down there, a lot of people go to the milonga and sit for most of the evening, very selectively choosing certain tandas and certain partners. They leave fulfilled and happy.
A lesson in there perhaps?
*A term I use to define a dancer who leads steps, rather than a leader of groups and countries.... Unlike most people, I believe lead and follow are just opposites, and we've PC'd it into something else. A female who leads is a "lead-her". :-)
Dear David anf TJ,
It is so nice to have a guy's perspective on this! Especailly when it's objective and open-minded. Thank you for your input!
David, followers actually ask you to dance all the time?! Frankly, I am surprised, I thought this doesn't happen a lot, except among friends, of course. There's an idea for us!
TJ, I am not sure I will gather strenght to go back there really... Funny, just spoke to Eva about a tanguera we know, who is actually thinking of giving up dancing for the same reason... Scary.
Besos, Malena
Johnna mentioned a very good point:
quality over quantity!. As I wrote on the other blog, if every tanda you dance brings your bliss, soon you will find void in tango.
What make a diamond precious is its rarity. We cherish things more if they are harder to come by, Non?
As far as quitting tango goes, I believe that one should do whatever makes one happy. If tango makes one feeling miserable, then what's point, right? Life is too short. Go find something that you can enjoy doing.
I do think, however, that we, the tangueros and tangueras who truly love it and feel passion about it, will never quit.
Besos,
TJ
dear malena,
i am so sorry you had another bad night. you are much more advanced than i am, but i can still empathize... as i told eva in my blog, there will be a new moon on the 11th. ;) perhaps things will start getting better for us new yorker blogueras?
i agree: it seems the women are hell-bent to improve, while the men are doodling idly by. well, ok, that's not fair... i have seen many men who are crazy about getting better. but there are many many more women who do this. aside from the fact that there is a shortage of leaders (good or bad), period, how can one not want to improve?? this dance is so beautiful and addicting, how can one not want to delve into it? even if you are already good, how can you not have the dream of becoming a master, impossible as it is?
i think maybe we women can be supportive too. we can encourage improving leaders a lot (always telling them they are improving, very often), and NEVER dancing with the ones who don't improve, no matter how bored we are sitting.
let's not settle! but let us also be supportive, as frustrating as it can get, for us poor followers.
besos,
nuit.
Good dancers are rare among both leaders and followers, to hear people talk. The challenge is to build a community of dancers who are going to be there for each other at the milongas. Going to practicas and classes is a way to start to cultivate your peeps. At the practicas of course, you can say, hey, "lets improve that move," or "here is a way that I can help you, and by the way, how can I make the dance better for you?" Sometimes you can also be open to some learning from these guys you think are so bad. Just saying.
Yes, we all know it, once we've felt the true soul of tango, we can never quit. One might not dance as often, or hardly at all at times, as there are the moments when life takes over and our complete attention is needed on different fronts, but we will always hear the music inside and it will move our beings like very few other things can. And the very few times we get to dance will be filled with utter joy and will send us back again to that blissful place we know so well.
I was just sharing a moment of frustration, TJ, as I am sure that we've all been there at one point or other. But I have yet to meet someone that has felt miserable because of tango. Frustrated, maybe, craving the feeling of how it should really feel, yes. But this is quite different. There is a really complex array of emotions, all very powerful, that come into play, and it's not so easy to say, Well, if you don't like it, quit.
Xoxo, Malena
Thank you so much for your comments, dear tangueras! It's good to know we all walk a similar path and meet with the same bumps in the road. Johanna, an excellent point, it would be much better to sit and enjoy the music and watch the good dancers on the floor than dance yet another tanda with just anyone. New moon on the 11th, dear Nuit? So there is hope :) I agree with Elizabeth that there is something to learn from these bad tandas as well, I guess you can use the opportunity and experiment with something you would be otherwise shy to try.
Besos to all, Malena
Malena,
You might have misunderstood my second comment. I didn't mean that "if you don't like it, quit." It was not the simple, as you said.
What I was trying say was that people like you and all these bloggers out here, who spend hours on the floor, who love it so much that write about it on daily basis, will never give up.
Hope you are feeling better already when you read this.
Besos,
TJ
p.s. i didn't know there was an afternoon milonga on sundays! may i ask: where is it?
It's on Friday really, at the same studio where the much talked about Tue milonga takes place. But on Sundays there is an afternoon practica at one of the big studios, I belive it's 3-5pm, just check the local tango website and look under practicas.
xoxo, Malena
TJ, your comments are really helpful. It's great to have a serious male perspective on things.
This is a great post with very insightful commentary. I have nothing to addn really as it's all been said so beautifully here. So I'll just enjoy the sharing of information, thank you!
I hate to toot my own horn, but I consider myself a good and safe and considerate and polite leader. It seems to me, that the cream of the crop in the US society is spread thin and all around in small towns and distant states. I myself live in Colorado.. DJ Dan lives in Alaska, for example (top 5 dj's in the country and a superb leader).
Ciao!
Hi...
I have been dancing three years now (with a six month hiatus where I quit tango because I convinced myself I was a rhythmic retard).
I just took a beginner (okay, advanced fundamentals) workshop this weekend from Tom Stermitz (Denver Tango Festivals). I learned that there are four distinct ways to shift one's weight. It's all about the subtleties.
I cannot see stopping workshops and festivals and classes any time soon. There is still so much more to learn...so much more dancing to get into my body and soul.
And, I am not interested in compressing 5 or 10 years of dancing into 1 or 2 years. It's like a good gumbo - the longer it cooks - the better it is.
Lastly ladies, where are these milongas with no good leaders? I will let you know when I will be in NYC.
Methosan, sounds like Malena and I will need to make a trip out to Colorado and Alaska. ; )
Leader..in training,
i am currently taking classes. i have only been dancing for a short time and only been to several milongas. i'm a little shy to ask a lady to dance most of time so i think it's a good idea for a lady to ask a man to dance. i truly appreciate good followers to honor me with their dances.
Leader..in training,
i feel that some guys think they are good leaders or good enough leaders because most men don't see their own weakness. no matter how great a guy thinks he is, if the lady doesn't enjoy the dance then he has failed as a leader.
so i like to ask the followers what makes a good leader? what do we have to do to be a good leader? a wish list if you will.
thanks Malena and Eva.
Dear Anonymous,
You made a great point - the true test for a good leader is not the number of classes or lessons he takes (although this surely helps in most cases!), but his skill to make the dance enjoyable (and preferably magical :) We will surely start a wish list, thank you for the suggestion! This will be fun! Besos, Malena
Dear Leader in Training:
Several years ago I posted a message on Tango-L, which I reprinted on my own blog as my first entry. It addresses what I think are the ingredients that make for a "Magical Lead":
http://www.tiny.cc/lqZUH
Malena and others;
As far as I am concerned a good male leader is someone I don't know is on the dance floor with me. IE--he doesn't tail-gate, drift in and out of lane, hold up the floor or throw his partner into kicking frenzies. There is another rule about who has the right-of-way in ambiguous situations, because of the way the embrace can block the leaders view--if you know the other guy can't see you, then he has the right-of-way. Because most NYC dance-teachers need to sell lessons and stand out on the floor, they are generally the worst leaders. You are better off dancing between two beginners than behind or in front of a dance teacher.
Of course there are times when a guy you know is a good leader (from other leaders' points of view) gets carried away with a woman he wants to impress. It is usually love at first sight for the guy and his new partner, or his third grey-goose martini. Since the guy is well-behaved most the time you give him his space and try to stay out of his way for a tanda. This gives his follower the impression that this guy is a superb dancer and he gets his 15 minutes of fame. If it goes on past a few tandas you close back in on him and put up with his bumps and kicks til he gets the idea (or passes out).
About the best thing one leader can say to another is, "I didn't know you were on the floor".
yours
Burleigh
Malena said "David, followers actually ask you to dance all the time?! Frankly, I am surprised, I thought this doesn't happen a lot, except among friends, of course. There's an idea for us!"
Malena, it's true, and I hope you don't adopt this habit.
I don't make any claim about my ability as a dancer, but I'll tell you that I don't just get invited to dance by women, I get hounded.
It isn't pleasant. Nearly a decade ago when I began dancing, it was flattering if a woman wanted to dance with me. Woman's invitations don't flatter me anymore. They're not complimenting me. They're placing expectations on me, making their good time my responsibility. No amount of indulgence is ever enough to satisfy them. We don't like it.
Maybe it isn't always like that, but the sheer numbers of women who think it is liberating to invite men wears me down. Most importantly, women know that they have the right to decline invitations, whereas men probably won't because it isn't "gallant." Women's invitations are an imposition on men. We hate it!
It's even worse in the case of married couples. I dance mostly with my lover, and there are times that I have declined a woman who was trying to intrude on us. (You have no idea how common that is for women who have life partners in tango.) Pretty frequently, those women treat me with huge disdain after that. Imagine! Women I know socially, offended because I don't accept responsibility for them over my own lover. The presumptuousness of that is unspeakable.
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